Short term and long term needs are independent of each other. It's a stroke of the pen to offer someone a month off if they want vs the several months long process of hiring someone till they are released to the line. Trying to match hiring with airplane delivery is a "best guess" attempt.

 

Voluntary month long furloughs is my pet name for them. They're actually called COLAs as in company offered leaves of absence. But the intent is the same. Lowered block hours means they have too many pilots on hand. So, due to the reduction in flying, they have to reduce the staffing, "for now". Which they have done for the last three months. As for hiring. We didn't hire at all through the summer so they are going to need to get people into the process. I thought I saw on another thread that we don't have any interview dates set up going forward. Can anyone attest to that being fact or fiction?

 

So which is it, aircraft delivery delays, or is it something that has always been done. Misinformation is easy. You just have to put something out there, get someone to bite on it and then they'll tell two friends, and so on, and so on. We all know that this place is not being managed right now for longevity. So saying they can't staff properly is saying they are trying to staff properly. They are staffing for profit. To say they have always done it is also rediculous because it's been taken over by different people and they haven't done monthly voluntary furloughs until recently. Didn't happen last year, and didn't happen the year before. Stating that people are saying the sky is falling is really missing the point and a sad attempt at marginalizing an opinion. I have already stated I believe that indigo wants to make money, and grow. I'm not "whining" about upgrades. Again, attacking words meant to minimize and isolate my thoughts on the issues. My intent is to make sure people that are thinking about coming to Frontier aren't buying into the propeganda to justify coming here for below industry wages and compensation. You are NOT going to upgrade in 2 years and reserve is getting longer. You want that MCO domicile, you're gonna wait. That's one of the domiciles getting I think 6 FO voluntary furloughs for November. I'm here to contradict the destructive Rose colored glasses view, and give a dose of reality. You're obviously reading my past posts since I didn't bring up upgrades recently, make sure to read everything. I also am spring loaded to distrust anyone toting the company agenda. I am actively trying to leave, and believe me, I won't let the door hit me. I am also actively involved in trying to better our situation here. I feel for the people that got stuck on long reserves here, and waited 9 to 10 years for upgrade. That was a different company though and different times. Bringing that up just shows your bitterness and has no bearing on the current times. Yes people stagnate and guys at American waited 18 years for upgrade, still not an argument for this. The people you're talking about already work here, this isn't for them. It's on the FRONTIER HIRING thread. This is for people contemplating F9 as a job prospect. Southwest is going to hire 1000 pilots next year. Their FOs make more than our captains. Wouldn't you want to put more effort into going there presently, instead of here. I'm trying to help people to make an educated decision now, because interviewing, and starting over, and first year pay, and reserve, and commuting are hard things to deal with. It's not easy to jump from airline to airline and start over. You also might not get the opportunity to move on. Make sure you're making the right decision to come here. That is all.

 

Well said.

 

It's just a numbers game. Do the math on how much money they'll save by offering this COLA. It's about 100,000 dollars for that month.

In regards to Airbus deliveries, I've seen the official numbers. Multiple line pilots and a retired pilot who does all of the deliveries showed them to me. We will almost double in size by 2020.

The BAD NEWS is that after 2020, most of our current leases expire and we will start SHRINKING AGAIN. They have ZER0 deleveris scheduled after 2020, they have none on order and they aren't seeking any.

 

I believe the year is 2022, not 2020, but you are right. There are no orders scheduled after that. I think this management team doesn't plan on being here after that.

 

Awesome, thanks aero for helping me prove my point. 2020 or 2022, doesn't matter, this is all speculation of amount of growth and timelines. You guys don't even have the same information. Maybe you're right maybe you're not, again it doesn't matter. Even if we double in size, that doesn't matter either, if you get hired now you will not upgrade. And in two or maybe four years stagnation! But I will put the carrot of vague opportunity that we will be bought or merged by then. Which will be a painful and arduous journey in and of itself. Sounds like a great deal. Hurry up and sign on that $23,000 dollar line ladies and gents.

 

Can anyone tell me with some intelligence what the current "culture" of the airline is? Is it the pilot groups? Is it Indigo? Is it the current management? From what I've seen it's pretty confusing. I know and understand what it was like before BK and Republic. Besides the new ULCC business model what else?

 

WWW.Frontierpilotfacts.com

 

You are right that there are no guarantees. No where in life is there a true guarantee. I'm not here promising to predict pilot careers. I did however take the time to gather the best information available and I've posted it here. I got the real lease return numbers and the real scheduled delivery information. I'm not making stuff up, I'm trying to post the most accurate information possible. You are more than free to call it speculative or whatever, that's fine. I don't care what you think and feel. I engaged you on this forum because I thought your initial post about the 18, 1 month leaves of absence was unfair. You made it sound like the damn sky was falling, or that growth is not occurring here. Frontier is growing, and the sky is not falling. If you want to be upset about something, I think you should direct your attention to how the company is dealing with contrast negotiations.

I'm sorry if you came here believing you would upgrade in 2 years and the company would double in size instantly the day after you got on the seniority list. I'm really not sure what your thinking is, other than obviously being very pessimistic.

The fleet plan has gone virtually exactly as planned for the last 2 or 3 years. When the second order for 321s was placed, the fleet plan of 120 airplanes by 2022 was stated. We are on that track. I've taken the time to dig into it and I believe that's exactly the plan. Nothing happens quickly, so don't expect to rocket up the seniority list. We still have a lot of lease returns next year, growth isn't very quick in 2018. 2019 and 2020 are much bigger growth years.

I'm not here to tow the company line, I'm just trying to provide facts. I'm the only person on this forum that has posted specific numbers on the fleet plan. I've taken the time to verify it. I don't care what you think or feel. Delta has a job fair in Atlanta later this month, feel free the check it out