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Old 02-26-2024 | 08:41 AM
  #141  
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Sounds like AAL is about to place a big Airbus order, that may end up tying up production for a long time unless Kirby can get a deal done quicker.
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Old 02-26-2024 | 09:42 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Sniper66
Remember that the initial cadre for the 350 went through training and were staying qualified by going to MIA sim every 90 days and the sim was almost ready to move from Canada .
the program for the 350 was signed off by the feds . Little refreshing those papers and bingo .

besides

add on since you already have the 319/20/21 and etops approved for the 321, it will be less than a year to get an approved training and operations program by the FAA

don't be pessimistic
That's only the pilot side. The logistics of getting everything in place like spare parts, trained mx, and the pilots is a minimum 2 years for any new type.
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Old 02-26-2024 | 11:03 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by 82spukram
When the max 10 was sold to us we bought spots on the assembly line. Those spots don’t disappear they will just go to another customer or ,which is my guess, is UAL will sub the -10 spot for a -9 or -8. The bulk of the order can still be taken just not as max 10 but instead a smaller model which I’m sure when UAL signed the contract came with a penalty for Boeing. In other words we will get them for less which will make sense to replace some of the 320,319, 737-700 and 737-800, and 737-900 early.
My question is where do those -8/9 slots come from? I'd imagine that near term slots are committed to previous orders and Boeing isn't going to be allowed to increase production until they can prove that they have resolved all of their quality control issues. I'd agree that we will most likely replace some of the expected -10 deliveries with other aircraft (max 9's and 321neo), but a meaningful near term solution seems questionable
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Old 02-26-2024 | 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hedley
My question is where do those -8/9 slots come from? I'd imagine that near term slots are committed to previous orders and Boeing isn't going to be allowed to increase production until they can prove that they have resolved all of their quality control issues. I'd agree that we will most likely replace some of the expected -10 deliveries with other aircraft (max 9's and 321neo), but a meaningful near term solution seems questionable
id assume they were -10 slots and they just make a -9 or -8 instead. The -10 has been delayed for long time
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Old 02-26-2024 | 12:57 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by KnightNight
id assume they were -10 slots and they just make a -9 or -8 instead. The -10 has been delayed for long time
Would that qualify as increasing production of current models? I can't remember if the FAA said no to the addition of new production lines or actually capped production at current levels.
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Old 02-26-2024 | 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Hedley
Would that qualify asincreasing production of current models? I can't remember if the FAA said no to the addition of new production lines or actually capped production at current levels.
No idea, but if our number is up in the Q then they build what is ordered, so I don’t think it’s hard to say they just sub in what’s needed
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Old 02-26-2024 | 05:04 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by KnightNight
No idea, but if our number is up in the Q then they build what is ordered, so I don’t think it’s hard to say they just sub in what’s needed
I think that's wishful thinking. The FAA is now jumping in with both feet to try to make up for their longtime laissiez faire attitude toward Boeing with increased inspection and - no doubt - increased AD notes as they discover previous delinquencies. Example:

https://www.travelandtourworld.com/n...ctrical-issue/


The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has unveiled a new directive aimed at addressing a fresh electrical issue discovered in the Boeing 737-8 and 737-9 MAX aircraft, specifically concerning the Standby Power Control Unit (SPCU).

Despite over a decade of developmental and design efforts, a series of single point failure scenarios continue to emerge, exacerbated by overlooked defects in design and production during both the initial certification and the subsequent 20-month re-evaluation period. Notably, as of January 2024, there have been reports of at least three emergency landings by United Airlines triggered by faulty Engine Anti-Ice (EAI) system warnings.

The Aviation Safety Advocacy Group has expressed strong criticism of the FAA’s recent approval for the continued operation of MAX aircraft amidst unresolved critical safety concerns. These concerns extend beyond the incident involving an Alaska Airlines Flight 1282, where a door plug malfunctioned.

A newly identified fault necessitates modifications to the aircraft’s Standby Power Control Unit (SPCU). This marks the third instance of Boeing identifying significant electrical issues within the SPCU since the aircraft was cleared to fly again following an extensive and rigorous 20-month re-certification process by the FAA, which was initiated in response to two devastating crashes that resulted in the loss of 346 lives.

The chronology of issues related to the Standby Power Control Unit (SPCU) includes the following key events:
  • On April 7, 2021, shortly after the 737 MAX was reintroduced into service, the FAA received notification from Boeing about critical design alterations to the P6 panel assemblies, prompting an immediate safety concern. By April 9, 2021, Boeing had advised grounding the affected fleet. Investigations revealed compromised electrical bonding impacting the SPCU and EAI systems, potentially leading to a cascade of critical system failures. (Source: FAA Airworthiness Directive (AD) 2021-09-08, issued on April 30, 2021)
  • On August 7, 2023, Boeing alerted the FAA to another serious issue where a loss of electrical grounding through the P6 panel could result in SPCU failure. A design oversight removed a crucial redundant grounding path to the SPCU tray, introducing a critical point of failure with potential for various flight deck issues and loss of functionality.
  • By August 10, 2023, the FAA announced an urgent safety concern regarding the EAI system. Operating EAI in dry conditions for extended periods could severely damage the engine inlet cowl due to overheating, particularly given the introduction of a new composite material for the MAX. (Reference: FAA AD 2023-15-05, dated August 10, 2023)
  • On February 14, 2024, the FAA proposed an additional AD to address a failure risk within the SPCU that could lead to unreported loss of control and issues with the EAI systems.
The accumulation of Airworthiness Directives, manufacturing defects, safety reports from both the FAA and NASA, requests for engineering exemptions, and reported in-flight incidents highlight a concerning trend of safety risks associated with the 737 MAX aircraft.

The Aviation Safety Advocacy Group is calling on DOT Secretary Buttigieg and FAA Administrator Whitaker to reassess the safety of the 737 MAX fleet, advocating for a halt to their operation until all significant safety concerns are thoroughly addressed.
Given that, the likelihood that they can produce aircraft at anything approaching the schedules based upon their previous level of FAA non scrutiny is pretty doubtful.
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Old 02-26-2024 | 05:07 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Hedley
Would that qualify as increasing production of current models? I can't remember if the FAA said no to the addition of new production lines or actually capped production at current levels.
the stop to expanding production is kk led to general quality issues. I am pretty sure the FAA does not approve increased production of any flavor 737. Whether it’s an 8, 9 or 10 doesn’t matter,

this means that the 10 is double screwed. No certification and no expanded production. I can see why Willis lost faith in this despite the rock bottom price.

but I guess you get what you pay for …
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Old 02-26-2024 | 05:28 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by TFAYD
the stop to expanding production is kk led to general quality issues. I am pretty sure the FAA does not approve increased production of any flavor 737. Whether it’s an 8, 9 or 10 doesn’t matter,

this means that the 10 is double screwed. No certification and no expanded production. I can see why Willis lost faith in this despite the rock bottom price.

but I guess you get what you pay for …
Just out from CBS News:

A panel of experts on Monday criticized Boeing's safety culture, raising the heat on the aircraft manufacturer following a January 5 incident in which a portion of 737 Max 9 plane made by the company blew off mid-flight.

In a new report, the Federal Aviation Administration said a panel of government and aviation industry experts had "found a lack of awareness of safety-related metrics at all levels" of Boeing, adding that "employees had difficulty distinguishing the differences among various measuring methods, their purpose and outcomes."

More broadly, the agency also pointed to a "disconnect" between Boeing's senior management and workers, with employees charged with checking the company's planes expressing concern about potential retaliation if they raised issues.

Boeing's safety "procedures and training are complex and in a constant state of change, creating employee confusion especially among different work sites and employee groups," according to the panel's report to the FAA.

Congress ordered the study in 2020, when it passed legislation to reform how the agency certifies new planes after two deadly crashes involving Boeing 737 Max jetliners.
​​​​​​​https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-...-9-safety-faa/
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Old 02-26-2024 | 07:51 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog

Look at the 787, 777X, and now the 737 MAX. The performance of all three programs underscores the critique that Boeing's senior management in the commercial aircraft division has lost focus on their core responsibilities.
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