Originally Posted by Whalefr8

Same question to you. What are we in negotiations for? What are we "giving up" in those negotiations? What is the union stance? Have they really given anything up? Did we lose money or hours? Did the time away from home increase? It takes two parties to negotiate.

The union leadership can blab all it wants but unless the company is blabbing back the negotiation is not taking place.

If there are LOAs that have done NOTHING for the group as a whole then why were they voted in? An LOA still gets a vote by the crewmembers right? It is the union leaders attempt to engage the crewmembers. A NO vote actually gives the leaders the power to go back to the company and ask for more. Your mention of an LOA that does nothing points the finger at the crewmembers, not the leadership or LOA negotiators.

Or perhaps you do not understand the process? As crewmembers we empower the leadership by voting no on an LOA or a CBA TA!

Part of negotiation is public support for what you have negotiated. It is a tactic to get more from the company 'Well Mr Cato - we will come out an support this LOA or TA this CBA if you give us a few more dollars an hour" all the while knowing (or hoping) that the crewmembers vote it down. It is a TACTIC, not a position. As crewmembers we need to be smarter than this. we need to understand the process and our role in the process. Your comment on the LOA shows that perhaps you do not understand that.

Originally Posted by Polarfr8dog

I'll try to make this short but this does belong on the newhire board so they can see what mess they're getting into.

Why are we asking about negotiating ANYTHING while we are so low at the bottom anyway? Look at SEC filings and compare upper management perks, bonuses, and salary compared to the Legacies. THEN go ask yourself why J.C. says we will never give you Delta pay rates. REALLY? Um O.K. then maybe you need to knock your bonuses down, too.

Here's an idea -- from a guy that "doesn't get it" -- AQP: Doesn't that have to be voted on? Well, spread the word for the "no" vote. Then you can go back to management and say I'm sure we could get this thing passed with more compensation (numerous ways to fill in that blank).

I'm sure you've heard this before: The pen is mightier than the sword. Yep, don't know who said it but I know it's been said. After all, I'm just a guy that "doesn't get it" Enough is enough.

For you potential new hires you need to know this so I won't be moving it to another board. Good Luck in getting here.

Originally Posted by Polarfr8dog

I'll try to make this short but this does belong on the newhire board so they can see what mess they're getting into.

Why are we asking about negotiating ANYTHING while we are so low at the bottom anyway? Look at SEC filings and compare upper management perks, bonuses, and salary compared to the Legacies. THEN go ask yourself why J.C. says we will never give you Delta pay rates. REALLY? Um O.K. then maybe you need to knock your bonuses down, too.

Here's an idea -- from a guy that "doesn't get it" -- AQP: Doesn't that have to be voted on? Well, spread the word for the "no" vote. Then you can go back to management and say I'm sure we could get this thing passed with more compensation (numerous ways to fill in that blank).

I'm sure you've heard this before: The pen is mightier than the sword. Yep, don't know who said it but I know it's been said. After all, I'm just a guy that "doesn't get it" Enough is enough.

For you potential new hires you need to know this so I won't be moving it to another board. Good Luck in getting here.

Originally Posted by C5nwhaleguy

This is the kind of negotiating i'm talking about....we don't get things done for the company until they fix what they have failed to implement in the current contract. I heard guys on last nights conference call say we are ready to implement AQP whenever the company and FAA can get their act together.....WHAT!!!!??? why are we leaning forward to help them get AQP when they haven't even fulfilled stuff negotiated back in 2011/current contract...trip trades, breakfast grievance.....NO NEW BUSINESS UNTIL THE OLD STUFF IS FIXED.....why is this so hard for our current guys to follow???!!! maybe i'm a simpleton but please someone explain this...but isn't this pretty basic....this is what i'm referring to as "misguided"

Originally Posted by Whalefr8

Have you called and asked any of them? I think there are five guys on the Executive Board right? If I didn't trust them as you seem not to, I would call one of them and ask about AQP, breakfast, and trip trades. I know I heard a guy with one of the communicaiton lanyards talking about breakfast on a flight a couple of days ago.

Originally Posted by NightIP

If you talk to the guys working in the training center (I'm not one), yes, the current leadership is pushing to lower their income by removing their ability to VX for open time. They are line pilots like the rest of us, and right now they're fuming mad that their 1.56% is going toward a grievance meant to restrict their pay.

Of course, that only applies to our pilots who work in Miami and receive the 72 hour min with the 10% override. What about our line check airmen, who also receive training overrides?

Exempt from the grievance.

Things that make you say "Hmmmm."

Originally Posted by atpcliff

I agree on AQP. IT WILL BE A BIG IMPROVEMENT for us, so we should she to it. It will make things better for us in training and on the line. Since it costs the company more money, and our FSDO doesn't want us to do it, I don't think the company would give us anything for it.