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Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

New Envoy Information

Old 05-20-2016, 05:50 AM
  #2901  
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Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
It is beyond stupidity as to why you keep posting when you don't even work here. I'm curious as to how you even got an ATP with the mental deficiencies you exhibit.

Guess what? We are still flowing. The flow is working as intended. Get over it!
Except the flow isn't working as intended. And why does it matter who posts where? As near as I can tell, pilots from a bunch of different airlines post in different threads. So why would you care who posts in the Envoy thread?
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:25 AM
  #2902  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules View Post
Except the flow isn't working as intended. And why does it matter who posts where? As near as I can tell, pilots from a bunch of different airlines post in different threads. So why would you care who posts in the Envoy thread?
Because when you have no valid opposing argument, irrelevancy is one of the few places left to run. That and name calling and personal attack. Some are convinced they make legitimate substitutes for proper rebuttal and it works for them.

As for the flow, technically they are flowing the minimum required, but when the Letter T situation is resolved, then it should get interesting as even with the flow spigot nothing more then a drip for months and possibly the remainder of the year, Envoy will almost certainly have fewer pilots at the end of the year then they do now. Although the busy Summer flying season will be over, the holiday season will be upon us and that should be ugly considering I think most of the E-175 slots will be filled and no one wants to fly the right seat of Envoy's CRJ's or EMB's. By next Summer when Enviy is still smaller then later this year a rinse and repeat of now only on steroids is a real possibility and might be the hull-blown crisis management here has kicked the can to with no can then left to kick.

Something simply has gotta give within 12 months and that may or may not be a place a junior Envoy pilot (all F/O's) will want to find themselves in. That just the way I see it, anyway.
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:32 AM
  #2903  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
Because when you have no valid opposing argument, irrelevancy is one of the few places left to run. That and name calling and personal attack. Some are convinced they make legitimate substitutes for proper rebuttal and it works for them.

As for the flow, technically they are flowing the minimum required, but when the Letter T situation is resolved, then it should get interesting as even with the flow spigot nothing more then a drip for months and possibly the remainder of the year, Envoy will almost certainly have fewer pilots at the end of the year then they do now. Although the busy Summer flying season will be over, the holiday season will be upon us and that should be ugly considering I think most of the E-175 slots will be filled and no one wants to fly the right seat of Envoy's CRJ's or EMB's. By next Summer when Enviy is still smaller then later this year a rinse and repeat of now only on steroids is a real possibility and might be the hull-blown crisis management here has kicked the can to with no can then left to kick.

Something simply has gotta give within 12 months and that may or may not be a place a junior Envoy pilot (all F/O's) will want to find themselves in. That just the way I see it, anyway.
Your arguments are just baseless facts and a bunch of innuendo. Supposedly you work at AA. If so, and that's a big if, you've achieved the brass ring.

Why are you so hung up on a place you don't even work? Are you just upset that you had to wait many years to flow while Envoy will have young guys flowing while spending less than 1/2 of the time you spent there?
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:32 AM
  #2904  
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Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
It is beyond stupidity as to why you keep posting when you don't even work here. I'm curious as to how you even got an ATP with the mental deficiencies you exhibit.

Guess what? We are still flowing. The flow is working as intended. Get over it!
Pretty feeble effort at spin my friend. I give you a failing grade.

I bet you are in the office right now boasting "yeah I post something on APC every(workday) to keep those liars(truthsayers) in check!"

(head shrug)
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:34 AM
  #2905  
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No new selections have been made. No announcements regarding how many will flow during the recall process, and technically we should flow zero as these are not new hire classes.

Even if they flow 5-10 people per month during recalls it's still missing the originally advertised flow totals by a mile. Thing is, nobody knows exactly how many are coming back. The manner in which they are calling furloughs prevents calculating solid number. Flow could normalize this summer, or more likely, towards the end of the year. Just add 3-5 months to your projected date.
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:35 AM
  #2906  
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Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
Your arguments are just baseless facts and a bunch of innuendo. Supposedly you work at AA. If so, and that's a big if, you've achieved the brass ring.

Why are you so hung up on a place you don't even work? Are you just upset that you had to wait many years to flow while Envoy will have young guys flowing while spending less than 1/2 of the time you spent there?
Perhaps he can't stand seeing liars like yourself sucker in more unsuspecting new hires with drivel like "The flow is working as advertised!"
If he is at AA, maybe he doesn't think 16 years of waiting for a flow that he was promised would originally work in a max of 3 is "working as advertised".
Stop trying to be a snake oil salesman and sell a flow that has very little guarantees to it, hasn't worked right in the past, and you are already stretching the truth as "working as advertised" on anyway.
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:50 AM
  #2907  
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Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
Your arguments are just baseless facts and a bunch of innuendo. Supposedly you work at AA. If so, and that's a big if, you've achieved the brass ring.
I AM posting "baseless facts and a bunch of innuendo" ? Well, let's see..........

Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
Why are you so hung up on a place you don't even work? Are you just upset that you had to wait many years to flow while Envoy will have young guys flowing while spending less than 1/2 of the time you spent there?
I've already answered you first questions about why I post here multiple times. If you want that answer, do some research. Now back to baseless facts and a bunch of innuendo........

Pilots at Envoy are flowing in less than half the time it took me ?

Interesting. Well, in the interest of providing factual information, what is the present longevity of the most recent Envoy flows and what will be the longevity of the last 824 flow ? If the answer to either is less then 5.5 years, then yes, your claim is accurate. If not, then it is itself "baseless fact". The future Protected Pilots (actually only the recent new-hires) are only PROJECTED to flow in that time frame, not guaranteed (the more senior ones or about 80% will not). For historical reference, I was contractually projected to flow in 2 years and management then stated to ALL Eagle pilots at that time they'd be at AA in less then 5 years, so my point of the legitimacy of projections and promises (AKA "Cocktails & Dreams") is neither baseless, nor innuendo. Your position of the 5.5 year flow to AA IS innuendo based on the math that is collapsing more every passing day. Even if the PP continues where the 824 leaves off, by late 2017 (at the earliest) those pilots will have what, close to 7-8 years at Envoy which is well over half the time it took me and my points to the present and future Charlie Bucket's is that 5.5/6 years is highly unlikely considering not only the past, but even more ominously, the present.

Last edited by eaglefly; 05-20-2016 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:56 AM
  #2908  
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Originally Posted by PilotCrusader View Post
Perhaps he can't stand seeing liars like yourself sucker in more unsuspecting new hires with drivel like "The flow is working as advertised!"
If he is at AA, maybe he doesn't think 16 years of waiting for a flow that he was promised would originally work in a max of 3 is "working as advertised".
Stop trying to be a snake oil salesman and sell a flow that has very little guarantees to it, hasn't worked right in the past, and you are already stretching the truth as "working as advertised" on anyway.
Took me FAR less then 16 years. That was the duration of the agreement. I think the longest Letter 3 pilot had approximately an 11 year gap between obtaining his AA seniority and attendance of AA indoc and approximately a 9 year gap between the end of his lock-in (when he/she expected to flow) and AA indoc.

Actually, not much difference in date spans from present pilots from a Eagle/Envoy longevity standpoint. I'll reiterate for the record, I'd be happy NO Envoy pilot (well, perhaps a dozen or so ) wait any longer then necessary to get to AA as virtually all deserve it IMO (exept the aforementioned dozen) and most of them will indeed have a much faster climb up the pole once at AA then I have/will. That's cool as I plan to even help them out by NOT flying to 65 and getting out of their way ASAP.

Last edited by eaglefly; 05-20-2016 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 05-20-2016, 07:44 AM
  #2909  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
What if it trickles just enough to keep you there, but not get you to AA to fast ? Sure, ALL would go to another legacy and most would go to an LCC, but most aren't geared for corporate, haven't planned on leaving the industry and virtually NONE would make a lateral move to the bottom of another regionals list in this environment.

People might threaten to leave, but when their guard was down and they were more honest (when strategically they shouldn't have been) in what seemed like an innocent EL poll, IIRC about 70% said they are committed to Envoy come what may. Few present captains can duplicate their income outside an RJ captains job and many of the F/O's are in too deep to move anywhere but up to legacy or LCC.

I think Envoy knows they've got most pilots by the short-hairs and aren't worried too much with non-expected attrition, especially if the flow DOESN'T stop, but just slows to a more modest 20/month or in a consolidation scenario, the equivalent of that for present Envoy PP's.


I don't know if you keep up with the hiring news going on above the regional level, but things are changing quickly. Most of the bottom tier LCC jobs are pretty easy to attain, it just takes a little groundwork. Corporate jobs are opening up all over as corporate pilots shuffle into the regionals to try and get 121 time on their resume for the legacies. Overseas jobs are there and attainable if a pilot is so inclined. And the legacies are not slowing down.

For most FO's that are staying, their top choice is AA. They aren't going to hustle for a job at Frontier or head overseas to Emirates to get out of the regional rat race. They are staying here, and watching what happens. Maybe FO's here felt trapped in the past, but I promise you, most that want out now, are getting out.

How much will they put up with, should the flow be modified or slowed (outside of the contract)? My guess is, not much.

I think we both agree that within the next year something will happen. We can't flow 30/month and hire 10. It's not sustainable. I think they need us. I think they will figure out they need us more than we need them. Same goes for PDT and PSA. Their model is not working and they still need their RJ's flying.
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Old 05-20-2016, 07:49 AM
  #2910  
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Well, I think it's time to go back to the job search. I'm not holding out for AA. This management has lost my confidence completely. Even with bonus cash and retention for FOs, I can't imagine them having the desire to save or fix any of our problems. They go for the easy way, and it fails them because the pilots suffer by their actions. It's a shame, I really liked DFW.


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